I have used linux for a couple of years now and it was one of the most bumpy beginnings (and ends) i ever had with software. There was little a moment that wasnt marred by some kind of problem.
I could write a book on all the problems i had encountered and some of them happen several times, but here are some highlights:
- monitors not being all recognized unless its plugged in in a VERY specific order
- monitor 2 not having the correct colors
- audio not coming out of the correct source, the default source changing when something else that can sue it is plugged in, and also changing after a restart
- gaming, proton barely EVER worked, rated gold or platinum on protondb? fuck you it wont even start for you
- wine is not much better, lutris also fucked up several times
What broke the camels back today:
I stream, on wednesday my controller stopped working so i couldnt continue to stream, an hour after i stopped? the controller started working again great right? no, today the same shit, controller doesnt work.
Linux continues to have awful roadblocks that make even the most stubborn user (me) switch back to windows for now
But ah i am not dont yet, getting support from other users is about as much a fools errand as it is for windows, just sprinkled in with a lot more brown nosing elitism. And i imagine i will get similar comments here cause lemmy has the same circlejerks reddit has.
As long as linux continues having the most mundane problems with NO solution anywhere it wont get anywhere, if it werent for steamdeck it would still hover around at below 3%
See i like linux, i like how the ui feels and all, but i just cant anymore, i want shit to actually work and linux just cant provide that yet
I’m conflicted. I always upvote actually unpopular opinions on !c/unpopularopinion.
But I always downvote posts that include things like “cant speak bad about X on Y now can we” and “X has the same circlejerks Y has”).On topic: Linux is an operating system that does some things better than Windows and other things worse. Most of its issues are a direct result of lacking support from third party closed source software vendors. That lack of support is a direct result of its low market share on desktop computers.
I use Linux because my user experience with it is MUCH, MUCH better than with Windows overall.
Things like:- the global search opening a browser that was designed to be as annoying as possible
- GUI settings I set being reverted with an update
- popups nagging me to use NEW_PRODUCT
- error messages telling me “sorry we did an oopsie, please try again later”
- forcing me to create an online account for installing the OS
- reminding me again to do it with each update
- vendors installing a gig of crapware and PUPs when I just need a printer driver
- Outlook connecting to the M365 e-mail account after I just specifically told it to connect to my own Exchange server
- uninstalling and preventing reinstall of software I bought when I click on the shiny “fix problems” button
make me tear my hair out. Just let me use my computer, for fuck’s sake!
And on top of all that and more, I’ve had way fewer issues running Linux-supporting software on Linux than running Windows-supporting software on Windows. And that’s the thing people don’t understand: Linux is not Windows.
If you try to use it as a drop-in replacement for Windows, you’re gonna have a sub-par experience. You need to switch ecosystems, not just the OS.
(but I’m still impressed that games made for Windows work well using graphics drivers made for Windows, 80-90% of the time).I’ve been using Linux since 2004, in various distros, exclusively as my desktop for any computer I own or control.
I nonetheless agree with you 100%.
Linux¹ is an OS that appeals to a very narrow spectrum of a very narrow subculture of people. As a desktop OS for the general public it is basically a disaster area. If video doesn’t fuck you up, audio will, or Bluetooth, or networking, or any number of other sharp corners and rusty nails sticking out. You either get used to fixing these (and then never touching them ever again once solved … and hope the next kernel update doesn’t fuck you over!) or you get the joy of sifting through a myriad of subtly incorrect and/or out of date “help” articles online. (Documentation?! Don’t make me laugh. You wouldn’t like me when I laugh.)
There are a few reasons for this. Of these, one is out of the control of the Linux community. The rest are the Linux community’s to fix, however. But they won’t. (The reason for this is one of the items listed.)
- Manufacturers of hardware won’t release the information needed to write drivers for their products, and won’t commit to writing and maintaining good drivers of their own.
- The kernel has its ABI changed more often than, I suspect, an average kernel maintainer changes their underwear. (This contributes to why manufacturer drivers tend to drift into shit.)
- The development community is almost pathologically opposed to writing proper documentation. (Hint: reference documentation is not sufficient and never has been.)
- People who do write documentation (often third parties), are not supported in any way by those who don’t: changes aren’t checked against existing documentation and the latter updated, for example.
- There’s a strong “it was hard for me to learn; it should be hard for everyone to learn!” vibe in the user community.
- There’s also a strong element of denial in said user community: a lot of “works for me, so it must be your problem”. The problem being with Linux is not considered seriously and, indeed, is strongly denied when mentioned as a possibility.
- Fixing complicated (albeit often entirely unnecessary) problems is literally addictive. A lot of users are addicted specifically to the dopamine hit of solving a complicated, if pointless, problem and thus don’t see this as a problem. They expect other users to be similarly addicted.
- A lot of users view the computer’s OS as the end, not the means to an end. This clashes with the viewpoint of users who just want their OS to get the fuck out of their way so they can work on their actual ends.
So why do I still use Linux, given all my negativity above?
- I do a lot of work with programming languages that most people haven’t even seen used in anger. Many of these aren’t supported under Windows in the first place; those which are tend not to be very well supported. Unix-like systems are the most common supported systems in that space.
- I really, really, really hate all the spying that gets done by commercial software and would rather deal with the problems that crop up using Linux than feeding a bunch of sociopathic billionaires even more data.
- This is probably the big one: I don’t play computer games. I hate the fucking things enough without wanting them in my entertainment. Many of the problems that people have vanish into nothingness if you’re not a gamer.
- I am a gigantic nerd. (In all senses of “gigantic” here.)
¹ Before some Yahoo tries to “own” me by pointing out “BUT ANDROID IS BASED ON THE LINUX KERNEL TOO!!!111oneoneoneeleventy!”, here I’m using “Linux” as a shortcut for "Linux on desktop systems as a desktop OS. That Android thing is not the killer line you think it is. It just makes you look intellectually dishonest.
all of these points are very valid but holy shit
“works for me, so it must be your problem”
especially this one resonated with me, cause literally (and i do mean literally) every single problem i would mention online had at least one yahoo doing exactly this
I really, really, really hate all the spying that gets done by commercial software and would rather deal with the problems that crop up using Linux than feeding a bunch of sociopathic billionaires even more data.
This is the big one for me.
Entirely agree with this whole comment though.
Fixing complicated (albeit often entirely unnecessary) problems is literally addictive. A lot of users are addicted specifically to the dopamine hit of solving a complicated, if pointless, problem and thus don’t see this as a problem. They expect other users to be similarly addicted.
I had never considered this…
Your opinion OK, but what makes it really unpopular, even like lukewarm-shit-unpopular, is the fact that it is some very poorly substantiated criticism.
What gets me is that this person is making very specific complaints about a very specific distro and setup, but then uses these complaints to shit on ALL OF LINUX.
When it fails on windows, it’s a stuff problem, but when it’s on Linux it’s a Linux problem somehow…
what makes it really unpopular, even like lukewarm-shit-unpopular, is the fact that it is some very poorly substantiated criticism.
What gets me is that this person is making very specific complaints about a very specific distro and setup, but then uses these complaints to shit on ALL OF LINUX.
And if we disagree with some of OP’s conclusions we’re the problem because “can’t speak bad about linux on lemmy now can we.”
OP will make another post about how unwelcoming the Linux community is next, and never wonder why their experience might be different than someone else’s.
Proton works great for me. Windows also has problems with selecting the audio source. I only have one monitor so I can’t tell for the others.
I find it very unfair that people will forgive any shortcoming of windows but Linux should be absolutely perfect or it’s not usable. No one can make a printer work on windows better than on anything, and projecting a presentation is always going to fail 50% of the time. When it fails on windows, it’s a stuff problem, but when it’s on Linux it’s a Linux problem somehow…
user server does not check out
what?
Your account is on sh.itjust.works, and in this case sh** isn’t working.
lmao, yeah
How can you flame like this without mentioning the distribution so we can shit on it!
because the point is not to shit on individual distros? none of them are shit in the end, the linux ecosystem just isnt for me just yet
I know, I was joking. 😊 It was actually great that you didn’t mention it, if you had then the discussion would have focused on how that particular distro is the one that didn’t do right by you.
exactly lmao
Linux is my main driver for work, so I don’t have the same challenges as you do for gaming or graphics, but am interested in which distro you’re using?
There are warts definitely, but haven’t had the issues you point out with monitors or audio using Debian or Fedora. That said it still is a lot like Lego when it comes to desktop use - dozens of ways to build something and it can vary a heap in the different ways you approach it.
Agreed it is still a ways off mainstream with the exception of power users or very streamlined environments like the Steamdeck.
first the one you mentioned: fedora = with nvidia never worked properly debian = id like my system to be up to date, especially for gaming
as for the other ones (in no specific order): Solus, the colour problem manjaro, the most common “plug in in specific order” perpetrator endeavouros, not as common as manjaro but sitll present, all proton/wine problems linux mint, same gaming problems
those are the biggest ones
People in this thread have noted that some systems seem to be Linux-cursed, and I’ve definitely experienced that. Usually it’s a specific piece of hardware that isn’t well supported, or a package or default configuration that has an issue. I’ve had systems that were spinning their heads and spraying pea soup everywhere on OpenSUSE and Debian turn around and behave perfectly on Gentoo (that was 17 years ago, but it doesn’t seem to be a unique experience).
Regarding the controller, if you’re connecting a PS4 controller via bluetooth I think I had the same problem earlier today, and there’s an issue open on the bluez github about it. I found a post on the Arch bbs with a workaround. TLDR, bluez has had a few issues in the latest builds and reverting all your bluez libraries to 5.68-1 seems to solve it for most people, including me. Unfortunately, this kind of thing crops up occasionally. Everywhere really, but especially on Linux because of how much it relies on community contributions to projects.
Anyway, I’ve rambled too long. Sounds like you got bit by either a driver issue or a config/package issue. Sorry it happened to you, and sorry it soured you on Linux. If you’re looking for something that “just works” and aren’t getting it with Linux, no reason to beat your head against a wall.
oh its two different controllers, both connected via usb, a switch pro controller (recognized as a 360 controller) and an 8bitdo pro 2 controller
What distro were you using? I’ve literally never had any problems with controllers, video cards, monitors, or anything that you’ve mentioned. Also, Proton not working is extremely rare. Basically the only thing that prevents games from running perfectly for me is anti-cheat specifically not being supported by the game studio.
I’ve basically always used Ubuntu which is very stable and the most Windows-like experience imo. Maybe you should give Ubuntu a try if you haven’t?
I’d put 5 bucks on a bet that the games that wouldn’t launch in proton were stored on a shared NTFS drive. The monitor problem because they unchecked ‘configure new monitors when connected’. And the rest is just user-error and not understanding the tools they are using.
currently im using endeavouros that had the controller problem of this week
ubuntu and or an ubuntu base didnt really change the wine/proton problem sadly
Can’t speak for controllers other than the wired Xbox 360 one, but EndeavourOS itself has never given me any of the other problems you described.
It’s not 100% issue-free, though that’s mainly the fault of Nvidias’ driver.
What I’m really confused about though is your systems’ inability to make wine/proton work properly.
What hardware are you running, and what are some games you intended to play?
its a common kenovo prebuilt pc that has never been tampered besides giving it a bit more ram
i had problems with so many games that it would be a struggle to list them all, so i limit it to 5:
- warcraft 3, bitched about directx which was installed
- anno 1404, an error i unfortunately cant remember on boot and than closes itself
- lots of smaller indie games never start (too many to list, just a random small indie game and there is a chance i tried it out and it never started)
- one finger death punch 1, lags so much its unplayable
- stacklands, worded twice, than never again, same setup
Okay, I don’t have any of those games. But looking at Anno 1404 for example, lots of reports on ProtonDB say to run DX9.
One Finger Death Punch has only a single recent report, which decribes problems exclusive to the Deck, so idk.
Stacklands’ recent reports look pretty much exclusively positive, so honestly, something about your system might be borked.
What troubleshooting steps did you take? Clearly something is wrong.
Edit:
You know, I always like to help, but you don’t provide much info.
Yep, Linux is certainly not perfect, and it’s not for everyone, though it’s improving all the time. A lot of the problems you were seeing come down to distro and Desktop environment, paired with hardware.
Because of the amount of choice and preferences we have, not all the desktop environments are feature parity, and each team has their own priorities. It’s just a shame that you practically have to do homework in order to have the best experience, when Linux users themselves say that the biggest benefit is choice.
choice was very nice, but this might be a supermarket kind of problem here
I’m a software developer with about twenty years in the field, spending my first half of that working in a Unix environment. I have tried so hard to make Linux my home desktop solution. I’ve come back to it every five years or so, hoping it’s finally figured out the UI/UX thing.
Things I like:
- no comercial motivation
- intrinsically programmer-oriented
- free with available sources, as deep as I care to dig
Things I don’t like:
- High barrier to entry (which distro?)
- Poor support for newer hardware (not a fault of Linux but a reality)
- Too much competition in very basic facilities like package managers and desktop environments
- Well-intentioned but largely unhelpful community support due to the above points
I’m back using Linux again (Fedora) because at the moment I’m doing a lot of embedded and SoC work, and again I love the dev experience. But so far it seems like not much has changed wrt how fiddly daily driving can be. I can’t stand W11 for a lot of reasons, but I’m constantly tempted to try my luck with WSL as a better compromise.
Honestly youre right. When i first started using linux it was for fun, something different. It had so many issues that by default id boot into windows and use ubuntu occassionally to learn it some more. A few years later and endeavour is my daily driver and im lucky enough to have 0 issues whatsoever, i love it but its probably dumb luck that all my hardware works well. The issues people have with linux seem totally random, some people breeze through it, then theres people like you that just encounter so much seemingly random bs.
Youre right about the circlejerks, enjoy the comments that are gonna come pouring in lol
i almost felt left out honestly, and i dont even have funky hardware, its a common prebuilt
Fwiw, on linux nvidia is considered funky hardware. Nvidia have a terrible driver and they refuse to fix it, not much anyone in the linux world can do about that
seemingly random bs.
Most of the problems listed are graphics related. OP mentioned having an Nvidia GPU. Seems to follow. 99% of the issues I ever had on Linux were resolved with an AMD GPU. Nvidia’s support for Linux is atrocious (outside of the enterprise space).
That’s true, but also a very bad thing.
Most users (read: laptop users) cannot just swap their GPU. They’d have to swap the whole device.
Combine that with the fact, that many people get interested in using Linux when Windows doesn’t work any more (e.g. because they don’t qualify for Win11 or when they have issues in Windows that they can’t resolve), and the general popularity of Nvidia cards (they used to be much better than AMD for a long time) and you get a lot of users with problems.
Obviously, Nvidia is to blame here, but that doesn’t help users who can’t use their PC fully on Linux.
G-sync monitors have also given me issues on Linux (w/ either AMD or NVIDIA gpus)
GUI mode was fine but I still never got it to display the text mode boot up screens properly, which is fine, until it breaks and then it’s really a problem.
Fingerprint readers are in many cases a complete write-off when moving to Linux.
Touchpads not made by Synaptics are also a big issue.
Generally, any hardware that isn’t standard CPU/storage/mouse/keyboard/printer/AMD GPU is touch and go. Depending on the model, they might work great or not at all.
I’m sorry to hear you had a bad experience with Linux.
One of the problems with that family of systems is hardware compatibility. Unfortunately if your hardware is not (proven) to be compatible with Linux, you will have problems. Sometimes those problems are of the “my system won’t start” kind. Often, these will be hard to identify and fix.
Linux is not yet IMO a system for general use. Fixing problems can be long, tedious and require you to read a lot of docs. Yesterday I spent a few hours fixing my package manager, which was recently broken by a system update. Yay.
I have been using dual boots for years for that very same reason. I am a software developer and Linux makes a lot of sense for my work. But for videogames (and other software not supported on Linux), Windows is my platform of choice.
The question I would ask myself if I was you is: do you need Linux? If so, I would next check (before anything else) hardware compatibility with some distro that makes sense for you (one that comes shipped with good graphics drivers for example). There are a few distro that work reasonably well for some of those cases. If you don’t need Linux (and you don’t like tinkering with systems) then I would suggest reconsidering your choice of platform.
Anyway, I wish you all the best settling for a system that works for you and hopefully you can see a quick end to your frustrations.
Edit: typo
thank you for the detailed and reasonable response, ill keep this in mind
For some reason, I expected the second sentence to start with “As an AI language model…”, no joke.
I put Linux Mint on my laptop about ten years ago. Finally, this year, my track pad started working.
I haven’t tried gaming on linux, but I completely agree on the audio part. I have a laptop running PopOS, had a meeting and it just won’t change from the built-in mic, and some mic’s won’t even get recognized. Let’s just say meetings are now like my gaming, windows only.
