Why are knife control laws so strong in the United States as opposed to gun control?
I was realizing it would be nice to have a knife with auto opening for boxes, etc., basically a switch blade or similar, and I found out that they are super illegal in my state (and/or there are length restrictions, or both sides of the blade can’t be sharp, etc), but I can go into a sporting goods store and buy a pistol and ammo in under 30min.
Shooting open an Amazon box seems inefficient. What is up with restrictive knife-control laws??
Because knife doesn’t have NKA to lobby for it.
I wouldn’t mind if they did honestly
The workaround is to buy a small handgun for concealed carry and then attach a small switchblade bayonet.
Your right to open boxes shall not be infringed
🤣
When a moral panic happens, a lot of things get blown out of proportion. A good example was the panic relating to D&D and satanism. There was a huge panic sometime in the 50s or 60s about the police dealing with young thugs with concealed switch blades, which could be hidden, and then deployed one handed so fast a cop couldn’t draw his weapon fast enough. So this panic got a lot of laws drawn up to ban any switch blade.
Since then, the there are knives that skirt the law by not having a spring which force the blade open, instead a tension bar. There are still types are illegal to carry if a Cop would find out you have it, like “Out the front” switch knives.
The stupid part is, there are plenty of “one hand deployable” knives on the market that are 100% legal. But the laws never get revisited. In my state it’s illegal to have a out the front switch blade, yet a bunch of high end OTF knives are for sale at a sporting store. They just post a sign that says “Know your local laws”, which some how makes it okay to sell.
If anyone has more to add, or corrects, let me know.
It also goes to show how laws made during the moral panic don’t go away even decades after that panic fades.
This is often in mind when responsible gun owners are critical of more gun laws. The govt won’t go “that was silly of us here’s your bit of freedom back” even if a law objectively had zero positive effect
For example, short barrelled rifles are still heavily regulated. Pistols aren’t nearly as regulated.
Yes for those that don’t know in the US any rifle with a barrel length less than 16 inches needs to have a buch of extra paperwork and a tax stamp to the ATF to register it as a “short barreled rifle” or it is a weapons related felony. The reason behind it is the government was afraid of gangs using easily concealed weapons.
The most common rifle of the US military, the M4, used a 14.5 inch barrel. Even if everything else was legal for the average citizen to own by making it semi auto only, that barrel makes it a short barreled rifle by law. But add an extra 1.5 inches and it’s perfectly fine in the eyes of the law.
The way to avoid the pain of excessive paperwork and tax stamp is to replace the stock with a “pistol brace” and make it a “pistol”. You know, the category of gun used most by criminals like gang members because it’s easy to conceal.
The arbitrarity of some states’ knife laws is also a problem. I don’t remember which state (OK pre ~2015 law updates perhaps?), but I read about one that had few carry restrictions below a certain blade size (somewhere in the neighborhood of 3 inches, IIRC), and if you’re caught carrying one over the limit, you basically have to give a specific purpose for having it. Assuming your case goes to trial, this means it’s more or less up to the judge to determine if your use was valid, which is juuuuuuuussst flexible enough to persecute the “right” people. (assuming I’m remembering correctly that this was in Oklahoma, that would be Native Americans)
Switching gears; Some More News had a pretty comprehensive video about moral panics, which also includes some history on switchblades in particular, for those interested.
I think it’s 1.5 inches in Connecticut. Lol
Seems correct to me. Thanks for the thoughtful response.
Butterfly knives only became legal in NY and MA about 4 years ago. There’s virtually zero reason to ban them other than protecting stupid people from accidentally cutting themselves
(I’m one of those stupid people)
I had one of those in high school and took it with me to a school trip in my back pack. We were at camp (think log houses) for three nights and I started spinning the blade daily. Lots of cuts (mostly on my hands) later I’ve learned to flip it like a pro. I can still do it to this day if someone hands me one. It’s like biking or swimming. Once you learn it, you don’t forget.
The teacher that was with us never said anything besides watching my progress. He was the coolest dude ever. I miss you, Mr Jones.
They were banned because racism. Not because of any particular danger to the user.
Same reason they banned pinball in Chicago and NY. To distract the people away from what names politicians money.
I got one of those things at a state fair when I was a little kid and set about immediately cutting myself trying to flip it open and look cool. My mom took it from me shortly thereafter. That ended the short saga of WoahWoah and the butterfly knife.
At this point, I can’t think of any reason I would want one. People that can use them well look pretty cool, but as a purposeful knife, they seem pointlessly complicated and prone to user error.
I use one as my daily! I practice with it a lot and have a trainer to practice. Funny enough, I actually just modeled mine today in a photoshoot (am a circus performer)
As a daily they function as any other knife. If you’re experienced with them, you don’t even think about open or closing. There’s a tiny bit of security in knowing that most people are too afraid to hold one. I do also like that they absolutely can’t close on you while holding it.
I have cut myself though. The worst was when I did a toss that landed tip-down on my palm. But small harm doesn’t bother me.
What a glorious ninja-career that could have been.
Yeah, but I’d love to have a switch blade. Seems really convenient to me.
Because so-called second amendment advocates are really just gun nuts, and so over the years they have worked hard to maintain the right to keep and bear guns, rather than arms.
Thus knives, swords, halberds, maces, and all other ‘arms’ have had restrictions go unchallenged, or at least, not challenged by an extensive and well funded network of advocacy.
If you look at the timing of most the laws against specific types of knives… you’re going to notice a pattern where there was some scare involving some minority or alt group.
Switch blades were outlaws after Hollywood depicted African American villains as gangsters with them.
Same with ballisongs and Asian gangsters/villians.
All of that said, auto-openers have a hair trigger and I would suggest instead getting a good flipper you can easily flick open. Benchmade bugout is my EDC (not for fighting, it’s light and solid.)
Because knife control doesn’t have an entry on the constitution.
Are knives not arms?
Similarly to religion and the bible, words mean whatever people want them to mean.
Right, wouldn’t a hand grenade or a suicide vest count as arms? But I get shit for exercising my 2nd. SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!!
Because there is no National Knife Association to lobby for knife rights.
There are actually some legal movements to reduce unnecessary knife laws, because a lot of them are based around the idea of 50s punks and don’t make actual logical sense.
But yeah, it depends entirely on the state. The only knife laws in my state is you can’t conceal carry a Bowie knife, but all other knives (OTF, automatics, balisongs, etc) are legal.
You definitely need to start shooting open your Amazon boxes
Not when he/she is buying dynamite though.
Do it. For legal change.
Heck, do it for science.
Nah boss, pretty sure the science of gunning down a pack of dynamite has already been figured out.
Shooting open an Amazon box seems inefficient.
True, but it’s the American way.
They aren’t: This is 100% state dependent. Some states have extremely permissive laws allowing you to carry anything from a switchblade to a greatsword if you want.
Yes, and gun laws are state dependent as well. I’m not talking about federal law (though technically the Federal Switchblade Act of 1958 is still in force), I’m saying that arguably the majority of states in the United States have more permissive gun laws than knife laws, and it’s absurd.
Most of the truly ridiculous knife laws are in states with equally ridiculous gun laws. A few have been challenged under 2A grounds with some degree of success but it just isn’t being pursued that much.
I moved to Japan where knives are also heavily restricted. If you live in Japan, you need a permit to purchase anything with a fixed blade over 15cm and it must be kept in the home. You can’t legally carry a pocket knife with a blade longer than 6cm (I think 8cm if it’s a folding but not fixed blade) and even then, if stopped, you need to have a specific reason for carrying it around.
It was really weird to me, as someone who carried a pocket knife basically everywhere. I did learn, though, that “in case I need to open boxes” is a case that has come up like twice in 10 years.
As for guns here, handguns are not allowed at all. There are licenses for airguns (pellet guns), rifles, and shotguns. Separately, there are licenses for trapping and hunting that do grant some permissions outside of what I wrote above (hunting/trapping license but no gun license means you’re going to be killing your catch with knife, spear, strangulation, drowning, or electrocution).
Interesting. I will say, I use my pocket knife usually at least once a day for one thing or another. They’re surprisingly useful for all sorts of tasks.
The permit requirement does not apply to kitchen knives, does it? Been some time, but I travelled to Tokio quite frequently for work, and always made it a point to go to kappabashi and get a nice cooking knife, some of the longer than 20 cm.
There’s a tourist exemption, but the knives have to be packaged and legally can’t be opened.
Well there are such restrictions on guns, try and get a short barrel rifle in under 30 min, the paperwork alone will take that long.
But also yeah those laws suck and shouldn’t exist. Much like the original intent behind CCW permits where the theory was “concealing is for criminals,” those knives were also seen as “for criminals.” It’s just old outdated bullshit that goes largely uncharged but can be used if they want to fuck with you. In some cases “criminals” was also synonymous with black people or even italians depending on the year lol, and were passed for racist reasons.
I was thinking the same thing. There are definitely restrictions on the size/function of guns, and you have to fill out paperwork, get fingerprinted, etc to get past those restrictions.
To buy any gun at a store, you also have to have a background check, which you generally don’t have to do for knives.
While that is true, in states with restrictive knife laws, there is no permitting, tax stamp, or background check option. They’re simply illegal typically without exception.
I.e., a CCW does not apply to an OTF knife or dagger in states where those types of knives are illegal, and there is no legal option available to legally carry one. Conversely, with sufficient paperwork, background check, and tax stamps, etc, you can get a machine gun.
I am just pointing out how odd it is that in some states there is a legal avenue for a citizen to purchase, own, and use a machine gun but not a small blade that opens with a button. But laws are often crazy, so, I guess it’s not really a huge surprise.
https://amedia.concealedcarry.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/12135010/atf-braces.jpeg these are just some of the gun laws you can accidentally break… And some of those “legal” options have been flip-flopped in recent years based on meandering policy decisions by the ATF.
It’s very rare that people who wish that “guns were regulated like x” or “can’t believe that guns are less regulated than y” have very little knowledge of what gun laws actually are like at the federal level, much less the archipelago of state laws.
There is a “Knife Rights” organization that works to overturn these laws. From what I hear, they tend to be pretty successful, since there isn’t a ton of attention on the issue and there isn’t much in the way of entrenched opposition the way there is on the guns issue.
The corrolary is that there’s essentially no knife control in Canada. There’s no length limit or anything. The law just states that you can’t carry a weapon. But if you have a reasonable reason to be carrying a machete (like going bushwacking) you’re good.
I think switch blades are illegal in Canada too, but I could be wrong
I mean, those are reasonably weapons, no?
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Yeah you’re right, that is one limitation. The rational is that it has no purpose other than being a weapon.
I think the difference between “assisted open,” which is almost always legal, and “automatic open” (e.g., switch blades") is very minor. They are both just ways of freeing and locking the blade for use. I don’t think either of them implies they will be used as a weapon. I would guess the laws are just stupid and, as another user pointed out, related to a historical “moral panic.”
Damned greasers and their switchblades and leather jackets. When you’re a Jet, you’re a Jet all the way, from your first cigarette to your last dying day!
Fair
There are also length laws and switch laws. I know, because I once had a hunting knife that was slightly over the length limit. The RCMP insisted I grind it down and submit it for inspection.
However, such restrictions are use-based; you can have a set of steak knives that are over the limit, because their intended use is obviously not against humans. But if someone pulls a steak knife on someone in public, they’ll run afoul of the knife laws.
I once sat on a jury for an attempted manslaughter knifing that took place in a kitchen with a steak knife, where both participants were drunk at the time; lots of interesting arguments were made by both sides.
Unless there’s some provincial law, RCMP was fucking with you. There is no length law.
What is the maximum blades size one is allowed to carry in Canada?
There is no specific blade size restriction for carry in Canadian law. However, the larger the size of the blade, the more difficult it would be to identify it as a tool for everyday use. For example; if you are hunting, then a large fixed blade knife on your side is generally acceptable. However, carrying the same large fixed blade knife on your side while walking downtown in a major city would be a different matter. If you have specific questions, please contact your local law enforcement agency
https://www.bladescanada.com/FAQ-Frequently-Asked-Questions
The only reference to knives in the criminal code concerns so called automatic knives:
There is no law banning the carrying in public knives with sheaths, knives that take both hands to open and any knife with a fixed blade and certain non-prohibited folding knives, assuming they are not carried for a purpose dangerous to public peace or for the purpose of committing a criminal offense.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knife_legislation#Canada
What Size Knife Is Legal To Carry In Canada?
In Canada there’s no specified blade length that makes it legal or not. The knife’s legality is determined by the purpose of carrying the knife and its design.
https://www.staysafevancouver.com/post/can-i-carry-a-knife-in-canada
